Interview
Ingo Preuß – talent spotter for BVB
On this particular Friday morning, the first one back after his holiday, there are 25 minutes to go until training starts. In other words, there are no balls being kicked around yet. Ingo Preuß is relaxed. The smell of coffee – black, as always – fills the room. Lennard Maloney’s Heidenheim shirt hanging on the wall is evidence of one of the players he scouted for BVB back in the day. Next to it, a flipchart shows the new team for the 2024/25 season. The majority of the work is done – for the moment, which is a fleeting one. In September, the dinosaur of the talent promoters, the talent-spotter, will already be setting out on his hunt for the following season (2025/26), observing and recruiting players.
What does a holiday look like for Ingo Preuß?
This time I booked two weeks off, in Wenningstedt on Sylt, like always. At the end of the day, I need some peace and quiet too sometimes. That means that for the first eight or nine days, the phone won’t stop ringing. But then for the last five or six days, it‘s a bit quieter...
...because things don’t work around here without you?
Things do work without me, I don’t want to exaggerate my own importance here. But there are just lots of things that have to be discussed. It could be some player or another who still needs to be transferred. For example, there was a question mark over Marcel Lotka – now he is staying after all, otherwise we would have had to find ourselves a goalkeeper. Then we were able to extend Ayman Azhil’s contract too. I’m very happy about that. He’s made great progress. We see him as an anchor player in central midfield. Maybe there’s also more that will come from that.
You didn’t start this job yesterday – in fact, you’ve been doing it for 32 years. What is your motivation?
It’s very simple: I’m a born and bred Borussian, through and through. In the first Bundesliga season I went to the Stadion Rote Erde with my father, and I was running after the assistant referee. Everyone in my family was a Borussian. I went to university, did my exams, became a teacher – all of that wasn’t that important. But then when I got the offer in 1992 to join BVB as a youth coach and take over the A2 district league, I was suddenly the hero of the family. That held a much higher status than a university degree or my work at Helmholtz grammar school. And that hasn’t changed to this day.
That passion doesn’t fade, does it?!
For me personally it’s a shame; one year after another passes, you keep getting older – but my relationship to the club and to my job hasn’t changed. I could go and sit somewhere and talk about football, but that isn’t enough for me. As long as it’s possible, and as long as I believe I’m doing a good job, I’ll keep doing it.
What you do is pretty unique compared to other jobs: in other roles, you’re trying to do things to develop and build up your own portfolio, but generally, you’re developing and building things for others. As a result, you yourself regularly have to deal with fairly fundamental changes in your own team.
We actually have to prove ourselves all over again every year, put together a new and competitive team again and again. It’s a task that I enjoy taking on – but I have noticed that it gets harder every year to acquire good players.
Why is that?
Because the competition has woken up again. Lots of clubs had temporarily cancelled their U23 squads – this has now been reversed by every club apart from Bayer Leverkusen. Players who are good but who aren’t at the level where they could play in the first or second Bundesliga, they used to be easier to find – now, everyone’s all over it again if there’s someone who they think could become something in one or two years’ time. The other thing that adds to that and makes the whole thing even more difficult: I enjoy being on the football pitch and watching the games live, but now, almost every game is filmed which means it’s available to everyone. There are lots of people who sit in their offices, watch videos, and also manage to find something here and there. That used to be my biggest advantage, but that’s gone now.
We’ll come back to the challenges of today in just a moment. But first, let’s take a look back: in the past few years and decades, there was a real flood of players who had been trained at BVB and then managed to establish themselves in different places all across Germany. Do you follow what they go on to do, or do you focus on the here and now when it comes to your work?
In football your paths are always crossing – in the third league, we come across former players almost every week. But also in the Bundesliga. For example, Niklas Beste trained at our youth academy, and nearly ended up playing in the Euros. We saw his potential here too. But after the youth academy, he simply didn’t want to be in the second team any more, and continued his journey with Werder Bremen instead. Then a few years later, he really popped up again.
When you’re looking for players for your own team, what should a player bring to BVB?
The tactical and technical ability and skills need to be there, as well as the potential to develop them further. That’s one thing. The other is the fire in your belly, and I need to see that when a lad’s sitting here. He shouldn’t care whether we’re playing in the third or fourth league, he needs to see the BVB project. When I spot that, I really want to get it. But I don’t want to persuade anyone here to join BVB. I’ve never done that. We can exchange arguments, of course, but there shouldn’t be too much back and forth.
Speaking of arguments: some other clubs claim that Borussia Dortmund’s strongest argument is money.
That’s rubbish. I know that some people make that claim, and I would say in response: other people underestimate us. One concrete example: Steffen Tigges got promoted with VfL Osnabrück, and I was still able to steer him to join BVB. Everyone said that it was only possible because he was earning thousands of euros a week – wrong! It was more that he saw the chance to be able to put himself out there with us. That’s what’s at the heart of it, not always money, money, money. Other people always accuse us of that, but it’s a complete misconception. The truth is: when I see a good lad, I have to give it a go. I don’t start searching for the new season in May or April – I start in September. And by Christmas, there have to be two or three players who are ready for us to draw up a contract in January.
Now we’ve come full circle and we can return to the challenges of today: scouting and direct contact – how does that work today, and what has changed in the past few years? You’ve already said that the fact that nowadays every game is available somewhere at some point and is accessible to everyone makes it more complicated.
Lots of people get a false impression from watching compilations – either in a positive or a negative way. With video scouting you never know what the atmosphere is like in the stadium at that moment, what the referee is like, what’s going on and what the stakes are – you can only get a sense of all that when you’re in the stadium watching live. Video scouting has its value, but in the end it’s all about live scouting – and gut instinct.
You have that in abundance after all these years.
I’ve had so many players where I thought they would really become something special, and I’ve been wrong. I also know that it’s very difficult to get into the first team here at BVB, so I’m always scrabbling around like a beetle in a pile of sand, sliding further and further down. But now and then it does work out and I manage to bring a player up to the top. And yes, over the years I’ve been able to gather some experience in terms of assessing the value of players.
How much has your previous job as a scout for the first team helped with that?
It absolutely shaped me, I still draw on it today. And I’m grateful that I was able to scout for the first team for so many years. How time flies: I was thinking recently about how Michael Zorc sent me out to scout Sven Bender. Or how Kloppo, Zorci and Sven Mislintat said to me: Ingo, just go to Berlin and see if Lukasz Piszczek can defend as well. Friedhelm Funkel was still a coach at Hertha at that time, and he got them to play one-on-one across the entire pitch. So I had the privilege of seeing Piszczek play one-on-one against Toni Kroos, who at the time was still playing on the left wing under Jupp Heynckes. Conclusion: yes, he can defend. I can make good use of these experiences, but in the end that still isn’t everything – in the end you need a bit of luck too.
In that context, when you look at the whole package – Black & Gold & Preuß – to what extent is this combination appealing to potential players?
When talks aren’t going very smoothly, it does sometimes help that I have Lenni hanging up here in my office. But my fundamental approach isn’t like that: I prefer it when the player isn’t already being hyped up, but rather, when he comes out of nowhere. To get a player to the top who hasn’t been the centre of attention yet, who not everyone knew, for me that’s still what it’s all about; a player like Franz Roggow. We discovered him at St. Pauli II – then he’s with us for six months and the phone won’t stop ringing because so many other people want him now.
Speaking of phones – 15 years ago, we would’ve sat you down at a desk with five phones (with cables) to do the photo for this interview. How does that work today? How do you keep in touch with people?
Some days I’m offered ten players, and I try to respond to all enquiries. That means it’s becoming more and more. At the end of the day, I don’t want to upset anyone. Because advisers are very important nowadays. When a player has total trust in his adviser, then that adviser already has an enormous influence over a potential transfer. Some of them see us as a wonderful platform, especially for their ‘unknowns’.
... and on that platform there have been a few changes in personnel in your immediate circle, and also at an interface. I’ll mention the names Ricken, Broich und Schmelzer. What do you expect from and within this constellation?
They are three professionals who come from completely different backgrounds and can still be brought together very well. In terms of Lars: he’ll always have an eye on the younger players too, but he was in his previous job for too long to do that. And he played professionally himself for long enough, so he knows the ropes. With Lars, we have someone who brings in the interface with Thomas Broich very cleverly. In terms of Marcel Schmelzer, I was co-coach and Marcel played for us, so we know each other. Marcel had a great career at BVB – without being a huge talent, it has to be said. Kloppo liked him, Dede injured himself badly, and he also had – which I think is underestimated to this day – Kevin Großkreutz in front of him on the left wing. Kevin covered the ground and the two of them complemented each other so brilliantly. It worked, just like it worked with Kuba and Piszczek on the opposite side. There you could see what makes a well-structured team.
And Thomas Broich?
I have complete trust, and I listened to him with interest during the Euros. He was different in a way that I liked; reassuring, without emotion, just like a footballer. Since then I’ve met him once in person and spoken to him. It’s fun to talk to him about lots of different aspects of football.
Sounds like you didn’t agree with some of the TV experts during the Euros...
I find this accumulation of speech bubbles on television unbearable, really. And I’m not just talking about the so-called experts, I’m also talking about the people who’ve learned how to commentate. When a team is constantly applying pressure and then the commentator says that the opposition can’t get the ball out of their own half, I think to myself: Yes, I can see that. What I often want then are explanations of exactly why that’s happening. That isn’t always easy, but it’s interesting – even if the explanation you offer is wrong.
And what did you enjoy about the Euros?
I was impressed by Georgia. How they sprinted for one another, how they made themselves bleed. That’s something I like to see. It sounds so old-school, but for me, team spirit is still what it’s all about, and that goes for us in the third league as well. There are so many professionals in the division who didn’t quite make it to the top, but who at 27, 28 are at their prime and are extremely experienced and well-disciplined.
Ingo?
Yes.
... is there anything that can make you lose your composure?
Yes, there are a few things. You should see me when we’re playing. I become a completely different person. I once fell out with a friend because of it. He tried to speak to me during a game and I just said: "What’s wrong with you, what do you want? We’re in the middle of a game and I don’t know how it’s going to end." I did go over to him afterwards, but he didn’t want anything to do with me anymore. Now I like going into a booth during games so that I don’t need to speak to anyone and can concentrate on the game. Then I won’t be distracted by anything. When our boys are playing, I have a responsibility, and then I don’t make jokes or anything like that. When the game is over and we’ve won, then it’s... wonderful. So, if you happen to see me when we’re playing against Rot-Weiss Essen, don’t speak to me!
Understood. Different question: are you still in contact with Jürgen Klopp?
Apart from one heart on WhatsApp recently, I haven’t heard anything from him in years. But to this day I’m still proud of one thing Kloppo said to me. After the first Championship in 2011 he came to me and said: "Ingo, we’re going to have a drink now. The players are exactly how you described them." That did actually make me quite proud. That was my best phase at BVB.
Go on.
The number of times I went to Poznań alone because of Lewandowski. And then Gündogan... The things we went through with Ilkay! Right up to the evening of the Cup in Fürth, people around me were teasing me during training, asking me, "Ingo, what were you thinking?" Then – Fürth, the 119th minute, they had already substituted the goalkeeper for a penalty shootout... and that’s when Illy Gündogan’s career took off. And suddenly the same people were singing my praises. I just thought to myself: thank you very much. Yes, I remember that all very well.
And then...
That time – 2011/12 – was also when the new job started; that was also a great journey, but extremely nerve-wracking. Because at the end of the day, you obviously don’t want to get relegated, or finish seventh in the regional league. And you want to bring a player up now and then as well. So when we lose, I don’t just go home and everything’s fine. It isn’t like that.
Do you miss your time as a scout at all – or is it mostly just fantastic memories?
It’s mostly just fantastic memories. I travelled a lot during that time, we scouts often knew one another and I used to meet colleagues from different clubs everywhere. We would talk and build up more and more new contacts. I look back at one time in Amsterdam particularly fondly: I was surrounded by agents, advisers, and I didn’t know anyone. Everyone’s looking at me sideways, asking themselves, "what’s he doing here?" No one speaks a word to me. Then, in half time, someone up in the stands calls my name - Bert van Marwijk. So I go over, talk to Bert briefly, come back to my seat and suddenly everyone has something to say to me, they start giving me their business cards and so on... I’m telling you – you experience all kinds of things in the sporting world...